tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post116318345284236639..comments2023-11-05T07:32:27.685-05:00Comments on Barking Up Trees: he asked me why... i'm just a hairy guy...Barking Up Treeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163447688188008062006-11-13T14:54:00.000-05:002006-11-13T14:54:00.000-05:00well, it'd make ME feel better... !!well, it'd make ME feel better... !!Barking Up Treeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163446780609976512006-11-13T14:39:00.000-05:002006-11-13T14:39:00.000-05:00Re: Papelbon - that is the essence of capitalism: ...Re: Papelbon - that is the essence of capitalism: taking advantage of disparities and inefficiencies. If companies can mine talent from unlikely sources, they are well advised to do so. But, being risk adverse, directors go with names they know, and the names carry hefty price tags. Happens in my biz, and I don't like it, but until you indemnify directors, don't expect changes. <BR/><BR/>As for Honda/Toy and hybrids, good for them. Better product, better engineering, and the product of a culture that is better focused on competing. Again, don't like it but it doesn't explain how capping CEO pay is gonna change it.Naahm Deplumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13114709408783510502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163352569196458592006-11-12T12:29:00.000-05:002006-11-12T12:29:00.000-05:00addendum: i think honda & toyata are doing JUST F...addendum: i think honda & toyata are doing JUST FINE these days w/their hybrid sales vs. ford & g.m., m'man...Barking Up Treeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163352447487037642006-11-12T12:27:00.000-05:002006-11-12T12:27:00.000-05:00in terms *i* can understand, NYC (boston) may lose...in terms *i* can understand, NYC (boston) may lose pedro w/his $55M, but can promote papelbon for, what, $800K... ?<BR/><BR/>redistribute the elephant's income/stock options to a greater pool of talent, and four or five gems will rise to the surface for a lot less...<BR/><BR/>is why the dems got smart w/dean's 50-state plan (or the red sox under henry building a rich farm system vs. free agent bloat under the yawkey estate), irrespective of carville, rahm & the clintonistas bitching about dc elites not getting *their* cut...<BR/><BR/>standing by my GREAT idea...Barking Up Treeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163287186206895582006-11-11T18:19:00.000-05:002006-11-11T18:19:00.000-05:00First, you focus on pay, not on how execs are real...First, you focus on pay, not on how execs are really compensated, through stock options. These are heavily regulated to force recipients to pay taxes on them, even when they haven't resulted in gains. As for the amount of comp., options and other pay are usually tied to performance. So, performance must have been good.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Japan caps pay, but what about stock options, other corporate perks and excesses that we don't permit here, and the pervasive keiretsu system? Fact is, Japanese CEOs are just as fat and happy as ours. How do we explain that? I don't know. In fact, it hasn't been that good for japanese companies for awhile now, so what do we make of that? <BR/><BR/>As for Ben and Jerry's, that is an example of unilateral change, and proof that unilateral change will not work. It has to be economywide. In fact, I am pretty sure that they discontinued it because no one with talent would do it for that wage. Hell, in my biz, I find that talent doesn't stay in the geographic area that I work in. Why stay in a shithole of a state when you can go to NYC, DC or Boston to work, get more money and better lifestyle?<BR/><BR/>But we theorize and disagree to death. My $0.02? Go ahead and implement caps, and then watch the results. They won't be pretty. Even if you get all Eliot Spitzer on CEOs and sue them for making too much money, like Grasso, you get only one bite at the apple. After Spitzer went on the warpath, CEO pay packages were rewritten wholesale. Now, you will see them start to move out of NY, something that had been threatened before, and will continue if Eliot signals his typical view of big business as a source of extorted funds through litigation. Could be good for NJ and PA though.Naahm Deplumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13114709408783510502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163219949864825462006-11-10T23:39:00.000-05:002006-11-10T23:39:00.000-05:00one more point about capping CEOs: if it is mandat...one more point about capping CEOs: if it is mandated that ALL business cap CEO pay (as well as the rest of the corporate officers) what're they gonna do as alternative -- go play baseball... ?<BR/><BR/>nah, citing ben & jerry's and ben & jerry's only is an ineffective argument against a GREAT! idea...<BR/><BR/>but thanks for playing...Barking Up Treeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163203145234173822006-11-10T18:59:00.000-05:002006-11-10T18:59:00.000-05:00wow! praise from thee... ! you know, i think i've...wow! praise from thee... ! <BR/><BR/>you know, i think i've actually absorbed much of what you and the brother keep pounding in my noggin...<BR/><BR/>but, uhm, speaking of japan, i believe they've been capping CEO pay since... well, a while ago...<BR/><BR/>and how's that goin' for 'em, eh... ?Barking Up Treeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12607988862083199144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15499377.post-1163196995819431532006-11-10T17:16:00.000-05:002006-11-10T17:16:00.000-05:00Finally, you are talking some sense. Fact is, you...Finally, you are talking some sense. Fact is, you are both right. What it comes down to is a disagreement over how we, in this macroeconomy, slice the pie. Further, you allude to a concept I have long since believed, which is that redistribution is, in essence, a form of protection--we pay poor people to not riot and loot.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, as I indicated before, there are no easy solutions and the major parties are not going to give us any. Perhaps becoming th United States of Europe would result in a leveling of things, but there is much discontent and malaise and economic dislocation there as well. Indeed, it isn't americans making all those bahamian bankers wealthy.<BR/><BR/>Consumption taxes would be equally unpalatable (although I would certainly want them) because they are seen as "regressive." The wealthy and thrifty would benefit because they devote a smaller percentage of their income to consumption.<BR/><BR/>As for offshore accounts being attacked, there are already copious reporting requirements. To be more effective, the Congress would have to require foreign banks to turn over info. Like that's gonna happen. Domestic banks have reporting requirements, and the IRS "has vays to make you talk" when it comes to finding repatriated income. In fact, it isn't rich folks that the IRS focuses on, it is international commerce--that is where you can really do some income shifting.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, you rail about CEO pay. You can always do what Ben and Jerry's did and cap it by law. But then they found that they could not attract managerial talent. How about replacing CEOs? Good luck running GM with a committee of employees. In order to do away with such excesses, the shareholders must act, which they won't do as long as the CEO is getting results for them (by, e.g., cutting benefits). You could always remove shareholders from control over US corporations, but you would not much like the ensuing market crash and depression. Finally, you can take the only obvious steps, which is to mandate better benefits, pay, etc. In two years, everyone will be driving japanese cars and GM and Ford will be shuttered.<BR/><BR/>No, there are no easy solutions.Naahm Deplumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13114709408783510502noreply@blogger.com